The debate over the timing of the rapture continues, but I would like to point out that there are areas on which pretribbers and prewrathers do agree.
We are both premillennial, that is, we both believe Christ will return to earth before a literal thousand year reign upon the earth.
We both believe in a literal Antichrist who will rise up and win the favor of Israel, making a covenant with them. With the signing of this covenant Daniel’s Seventieth Week will begin, but half way through that covenant He will turn on them and reveal who he is.
We both believe that a temple will be in place for Antichrist to desecrate at the midpoint of Daniel’s Seventieth Week.
We both believe that the church is not destined to suffer the wrath of God. Jesus Christ bore that wrath for us on the cross.
Where we disagree is when the wrath of God occurs in which God deals with the sinfulness of man. When does God’s wrath begin? Does it begin at the signing of the covenant, when Daniel’s Seventieth Week gets underway, or does it fall sometime after?
The most prophesied event in the Old Testament concerning the last days is the Day of the Lord.
• It will be marked by God’s fiery judgment, His wrath, against the earth’s wicked. (2 Peter 3:7)
• The Lord alone will be exalted during that time period. (Isaiah 2:11)
• It will be preceded by a sign in the heavens given in the sun, moon, and stars. (Joel 2:30,31)
• The wicked inhabitants of the earth will recognize its arrival in the form of the wrath of the Lamb at the opening of the sixth seal, when the sign in the sun, moon, and stars occurs. (Rev. 6:12-17)
Are you aware that scripture instructs believers, the true church, to look for the coming of the day of the Lord?
2 Peter 3:10-12: “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with heat!”
Paul told the Thessalonians that for unbelievers the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night but for believers that day will not overtake like a thief in the night. Why is that? Because we’ve been given signs for which to watch! We already saw that Joel 2:31 specifically says that BEFORE the day of the Lord there will be a sign in the heavens, the sun will be turned to darkness and the moon into blood.
When does the sign signaling the day of the Lord for which the church is to be looking occur in relation to the great tribulation and persecution by Antichrist?
According to Matthew in chapter 24, immediately after the great tribulation - which does not run the full second half of Daniel’s Seventieth Week – Jesus says it will be cut short for the sake of the elect!
THE DAY OF THE LORD, FOR WHICH BELIEVERS ARE TO BE LOOKING, WILL OCCUR SOMETIME AFTER THE MIDPOINT OF DANIEL’S SEVENTIETH WEEK!
Yes, the building of a temple should get us excited. I believe the church will still be here when that happens. According to Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4, the day of the Lord will not occur before Antichrist sets himself up as God in that temple. If the church is to be looking for the day of the Lord and since the day of the Lord will not have occurred before Antichrist exalts himself in the temple, this allows the church to be here during the reign of Antichrist and his persecution of Israel and believers. Persecution or tribulation and wrath are two very different things. Believers are actually promised persecution when they live godly lives. The abomination of desolation is the huge sign that the great tribulation is about to start. At some point Christ will cut the persecution short by His return. He will signal to His elect that His day of the Lord's wrath is about to begin. The wicked of the earth will also see the sign and will cower and run and hide in sheer terror, but we are to look up when this sign occurs for our redemption is near. (Luke 21:28) His angels will then gather His true church and then He will pour out His day of the Lord's wrath against the sinfulness of mankind.
Giving to the Poor
8 months ago
29 comments:
Kathy,
Hi!
I like your new blog! I believe we do have a lot more in common than not, as well. However, you know that I believe that there will be more than one rapture. And you're seeing the second one, in the pre-wrath view. Anyway, I don't believe you'll object if you go in the first rapture, would you? (smile) Hey, we'll see things a lot clearer from the "other side," amen?
Fall is in the air this week, isn't it? My favorite time of the year. And hopefully, we'll enjoy a mild winter this year, too.
Have a great day! And enjoy the sunshine!
Love,
Marge
Hi Marge!
We do agree on much!
We had to have our heater on this morning. Fall arrives and so does the cold. Say, you might enjoy a web album of a trip I took up to Mt. Rainier with my daughter yesterday. It was so beautiful.
My son just arrived from Alaska this morning. It's so good to see him. He'll be with us for a little over two weeks.
You have a great day too.
Love from Kathy
(Hit slideshow and the pics will pop up real big.)
Marge,
The Lord will take us in His perfect timing, in that we can trust!
Hi there,
I really like what you say about desiring to plant seeds of preparation. I really feel a similar desire: I feel called to equip for emergency or flight, and to prepare all the Lord gives me. I think it's a great calling, but I find it very frustrating trying to find the proper 'field' to apply this work. As you may have noticed, it is hard to find people to agree with when it comes to last days prophecies, and even those you do agree with for the most part, there may yet be major points of disagreement.
It seems like preparing for the last days, whether it be spiritual, physical, or both, (both are important), implies the belief or premise that we are nearing the last days and the time may come that some very real preparation and equipping may be necessary.
While waiting for opportunities to do the work of our calling(s) and to plant those seeds in whatever field(s) we may find proper, it goes without saying that waiting on the Lord will be a source of strength and renewal.
God bless...
Hello Gene,
I like your blog address.
Most believers I encounter do not expect to go through the persecution of Antichrist. It is truly my understanding that the church will be present during that time. 2 Th. 2 is the passage that clinched it for me, along with gaining an understanding of what the scriptures teach regarding the Day of the Lord.
Just be faithful in planting those seeds. Though you will encounter rejection, respond with grace.
The Lord is our strength.
Blessings and thank you for the visit.
Kathy
Kathy,
Thank you for the kind words.
I am not sure when you looked at my blog, but my last couple of posts (on Psalm 37 and 46) include some input on the Day of the Lord, which I too find very interesting.
It is in a greater understanding of the day of the Lord that I am finding much comfort and strength to be able to stand up to whatever may come in the last days...
God Bless
Hi Gene,
I noticed you place the great tribulation at the end of Daniel's 70th Week. From Jesus teaching in Mt. 24 I see it starting at the midpoint, when Antichrist desecrates the temple (the abomination of desolation). Jesus then says the days of great tribulation will be cut short for the sake of the elect, meaning it will not run the entire second half of Daniel's 70th Week. Is that how you understand the timing of the great tribulation?
Paul is very clear that the day of the Lord will not overtake believers who are awake and alert. The Lord is gracious in giving us clear instruction about His return and what to expect and how to prepare for the coming persecution during the great tribulation. We don’t have to go into that time blind and unprepared!
Blessings as you faithfully plant those seeds of preparation.
Kathy
I thought you might ask me regarding my timing of the great tribulation.
As I said on my original comment: even those you do agree with for the most part, there may yet be major points of disagreement.
This is our major point of disagreement. Although we have similar calling(s) and desires, we have yet to see eye to eye on this one point. I dare say that more people share your perspective than mine. (I have yet to find one that agrees with mine). That does not mean, however, that I am wrong. At the same time, I am always ready to change my viewpoint; I just have yet to find reason to.
I have a pretty thorough understanding of Matthew 24, and I see nothing there saying the AoD is set up at the midpoint. For that matter, I see nothing in Daniel stating that (unless you read Daniel 9:27 alone and take no other verse into consideration).
I must take Daniel 12:11 into consideration: that there are 1,290 days between the removal of the sacrifice and the setting up of the abomination of desolation.
These two disparate events are separated by exactly 1,290 days. I find it exasperating how many people realize there is a pause between the 69th and 70th weeks, which is an unwritten pause, yet how few realize there is a pause between the removal of the sacrifice and the setting up of the AoD, which is written.
Some claim the two events occur simultaneously but that the AoD will remain for 1,290 days. As much as I'd like to believe that, I don't read Daniel 12:11 that way.
There is more I could say in defense of my stance, but for the sake of discretion, I would suggest we email if you are truly interested in considering this alternate point of view that I am suggesting. Because my perspective has some weak link(s), (but in those weaknesses the Lord reveals some pretty awesome knowledge), I do not want to get into overmuch justifying in such a public format as this.
Blessing to you In Christ Jesus our Lord,
Gene
gboyd1972@gmail.com
Kathy,
It's me again, and I want to make sure I did not get off on the wrong foot with my previous comment. It would probably be more wise to have a dialogue on those points on which we do agree, for we agree on some very important points: no pre-trib. rapture; the abomination of desolation is set up just prior to the beginning of the great tribulation; and there are other things as well.
We could certainly make progress on strengthening these points before taking the risk of coming to odds over something that we really have no control over.
If we do try to reach a greater understanding on points of disagreement, I want to make sure it is an equal interaction. Too much writing and too much commenting and too much blogging really becomes a bunch of rhetoric that does not allow a sufficient degree of responding and answering. Either way we approach this, I am content...
Thanks and God Bless.
In Him,
Gene
Gene,
Your comments were remarkably refreshing - Overcomer is a dear friend who takes a beating for disagreeing with the mainstream belief system. I think you will find that any discussion you have with her will be encouraging, enlightening and exactly that - a discussion. In my book, you are already ahead of the curve since you understand the persecution which is to befall the unprepared church.
Blessings to you and your continued study!
Kristen
Hi Gene,
No wrong feet with me so no worries there! It was refreshing to have a like-minded believer visit my blog, one who understands that persecution is going to come upon the church before our Lord returns and desires also to plant seeds of preparation. That is huge in my book!
Keep me posted on how the “sowing” is going. Rejoice in the Lord always. Rejoice when it’s hard and rejoice when it’s easy - that way rejoicing just becomes a habit!
Kathy
...I am curious as to how you found my blog.
I am glad we are still okay.
I believe I was using search term "rapture theory" or "70th week" when I found your blog.
There was a morning there when all I was getting was preterist arguments, and I was getting a little overwhelmed and needed to find someone I agreed with. I was glad to have found your blog.
When it comes to those who think the 70th week already happened, I can't help but think of the parenthological statement of Matthew 24:15--(whoso readeth, let him understand).
If the pertinent information that Jesus was revealing to his disciples was relevent to the 70 AD destruction, then it would have been sufficient to pass it along by word of mouth. But Jesus made sure his disciples wrote it down because it was meant for the time of the end (Habakkuk 2:3), a time of a future temple...something we may see if and when the War on Terror finds a resolution.
He is urging the people of the generation of the 3rd temple to understand. There has got to be more to this understanding than meets the eye.
In Him,
Gene
Gene,
A very insightful comment regarding Mt. 24:15! That, and the fact that the sixth seal has yet to be opened for me leaves the preterist position greatly lacking.
Kathy,
I agree that we have yet to see the sixth seal. That point, however, opens up quite the can of worms, so to speak...
I believe it was Roy Rogers who said, "Once you straddle a thing, it takes a long time to explain it."
When it comes to seals and trumpets of Revelation, I am somewhat hesitant to get into using them as support or evidence of a stance I am taking. Much of what is included in these things seem to straddle the heavenly and earthly realms, and explaining them takes such a long time. It's one thing to take these things into account when forming one's own theories about the last days, but it's entirely different when using them to defend your stance against someone you don't agree with.
It's hard enough to understand earthly timelines, and when we begin to cross over into the heavenly order of things, it gets even harder.
Another point that might be worth bringing up, (in attempt to keep people from forming or continuing in a preterist stance), is that no government, ruler, or king has yet to strive against the people of faith all the way up to the time that the Ancient of Days comes (Daniel 7:21,22).
The war against people of faith (Daniel 7:21,22,25; 12:7: Revelation 13:5-7) is an interesting subject that might be worth looking into in more detail, for in a greater understanding of what people of faith will be facing, we will have a greater knowledge what we must prepare for and how best to make those preparations.
I recently wrote a post: "Psalm 55:20,21 The Way of a Deceiver" that takes a brief look at how the 42 month campaign might take shape.
The Lord Reigns!
In Him,
Gene
Your insights are refreshing Gene. You are a true student of the Word! You make an excellent point regarding no government, ruler, or king has yet to strive against the people of faith all the way up to the time of the Ancient of Days coming.
There are definitely different views regarding the seals, trumpet, and bowls. I have friends who view some of the seals as already being opened. Others think seal one opens around the covenant signing between Israel and Antichrist. I view the cosmic sign reference in Mt. 24 and Rev. 6 as being one and the same. If you take Mt. 24 at face value as I do, the opening of the sixth seal then does not occur until after the A of D. I place the A of D at the midpoint of the Week. I do see the trumpets and bowls as running chronologically, not concurrently. It’s because of language such as “After this” in Rev. 7:1…”After these things I looked”…in 7:9. I don’t view seals one through six as God’s wrath. I understand God’s wrath to begin with the opening of the seventh seal which in turn begins the trumpets. When you compare 2 Peter 3 where the day of the Lord, when God deals with the sinfulness of man, is spoken of in terms of intense heat and the earth and its works being burned up with Rev. 8:7 where you have at the sounding of the first trumpet hail and fire being mixed with blood and thrown down to the earth and a third of the earth is burned up, that sounds like the fiery day of the Lord’s wrath to me! I do separate the time of AC’s persecution with God’s wrath. I believe scripture teaches one follows the other and they do not run concurrently. It is the persecution of AC we are to prepare for but we will be rescued prior to God’s wrath falling at the day of the Lord. When comparing scripture with scripture again, after the cosmic sign reference in Mt. 24 you have the gathering of the elect. After the cosmic sign reference in Rev. 6, you have the great multitude from every tribe arriving in heaven. I view the gathering of the elect and this great multitude before the throne none other than the raptured church!
I will visit your blog again and read more of your posts.
Have you read Robert VanKampen’s book, The Sign?
We agree to the sixth seal being related to the Matthew 24 incident most likely. We agree to much-- almost everything. I believe, however, the A of D is set up at the end of the 70th week, exactly 1,290 days, (Daniel 12:11), after the daily sacrifice and offering is taken away. The 42 month campaign that comes in this window of time will be only against people of faith, and this is not the great tribulation, and these days cannot be cut short, for too much has been determined in this window of time for the fulfilling of these days not to come to pass.
The great tribulation is a tribulation against all flesh, which will come right after the Antichrist is revealed, (2 Thessalonians 2:3,4), and which will take place when Satan is bound up within the bosom of one man.
I realize this may seem archaic but imagine the 70th week is like a sunny day on the world, and on this similitude of a world there are but two camps of people. Halfway through the 'day', something will happen that will cause a dark cloud to block most of the sunlight but only for one camp; meanwhile, the other camp continues on its merry way soaking up the rays, and many from the cloudy side will cross over--the great falling away, (2 Thessalonians 2:3). At the end of the day, darkness comes on the whole world and nobody enjoys the sunlight of 'world peace' any longer.
In that hour of great and sudden darkness, it's not going to be easy for those forced to bow to the man and take his mark because they will perceive the cost, and this will remove all their peace of mind, but they love their lives too much to know better.
For those not caught up in this dilemma or making the wise choice of martyrdom as an alternative, the only option is to live or survive off the land and a good distance from "civilization".
While this rough form of survival may be possible for a few days or a few months, to expect people to live and survive off the land for a few years or more under these sort of chaotic worldwide conditions is expecting more of a miracle than what the Lord did in sustaining Israel in the wilderness for those forty years.
There is a weak link in this aspect of my theory, but in this weakness, there is some very powerful insight that cannot be gone into in a public forum. If the Lord wanted all his plans for
protecting and sustaining his people in the last days made public, it would be in the Bible like when he told Noah how to make the ark...
I think the great tribulation will last at least 45 days, (Daniel 12:12), from the flight from the abomination of desolation, (Daniel 12:11), but after that point we might soon expect divine intervention,(i.e. the Rapture and Second Coming).
Not everyone living off the land, not everyone roughing it, not everyone without the mark will have a firm enough grasp on who Jesus is to be taken up to meet him and be a part of his Millenial Kingdom; however, these 'left behind' will form the foundational ancestry of who will make up the other nations that will exist, by his great and everlasting mercies, during and at the end of the 1000 year reign.
(These 'left behind' citizens of the world will be more populous in some regions than in others.) This is a 'left behind' concept I would like to read about because I see a lot more creative potential and poetic license available in the period of the Millenial Reign; and it would seem all open avenues prior to this have been taken.
Hi Gene,
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner. I have out of town relatives and I'm also busy with an unexpected, big kitchen remodeling project.
I simply take Mt. 24 at face value and allow it to apply to the church. (We let Mt. 13, the parable of the wheat and tares apply to the church and Mt. 28:19,20 apply to the church - It doesn't make sense to me to keep Mt. 24 from applying to the church as well.) I see Jesus reference to the AofD as occurring at the midpoint of the Week...I do place the stopping of the sacrifices and the AofD together at that point. Then the great tribulation begins, and I agree with you that it comes right after the man of lawlessness is revealed. Those who align with Antichrist (the man of lawlessness), by taking his mark, will experience peace and safety however. He will first go after Israel but when God protects His remnant in the wilderness and he can't get to them he will then go after the church. (Rev. 12) The slaughter will be unprecedented according to Jesus own words and for the sake of the elect, (otherwise no believers would be left) Christ returns, cutting off the great tribulation before the end of the Week. Once the church is safely in His presence then God's wrath falls in the form of the trumpets and bowls for the remainder of the Week.
If we heed Christ's warnings in Mt. 24, we need not go into that time period blind. We can prepare. With knowledge comes peace, at least it has for me.
My mom is waiting for me to play Scrabble!
I'm enjoying our dialogue...
Kathy
The Pre-Wrath rapture is definitely the strongest position.
Couldn't agree with you more Matt!
(My mom trounced me in Scrabble. This means a rematch tonight!)
Kathy,
Hi! I totally understand how there are periods where the blogosphere becomes low on one's list of priorities...By the way, my wife and I love to play Scrabble; we haven't done it lately, but I have a feeling we will be...
A couple comments ago, you asked me if I have read Robert Van Kampen's book "Signs..."
I haven't read it, but if I understand correctly, he bases his theories on the idea that the abomination of desolation is set up in the middle of the week.
While I do not totally discount this possibility--it is very important to know when it will happen--I still find some major flaws with it, and I am a long ways from totally discounting the thought that it will come at the end of the 70th week...
1) To be set up in the temple, there must first be a temple. Can the temple really go up in a mere three and a half years?
2) What is going to happen in the first half of the seven years that will prime the world for the abomination of desolation, (i.e. the Antichrist demanding worship and that people mark their bodies in specific ways to show their dedication to him)? (If that is not an abomination that would cause desolation, then what is it?)
3) What is the meaning of Daniel 12:11?
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." Daniel 12:11
4) If the days of the great tribulation are cut short, (Matthew 24:22), and we know they will be, how would they be cut short in a window of time where so much has been determined to occur?
Why does a pre-wrath rapture have to based upon the premise that the a o d is set up at the midpoint? The only strength of that idea is in the numbers of men-- "bible scholars and eschatology experts"--agreeing on the idea...
If ever there is a time to question a stance, it is when many "bible scholars and eschatology experts agree". We all remember what bible experts and religous leaders of Jesus' day agreed to.
In Him,
Gene
Hi Gene:
Daniel 9:27 clearly states that in the middle of the Week the AoD puts a stop to the sacrifices. It is not a leap to see that this is what Jesus references in Mt. 24 – the AoD standing in the holy place. As far as Daniel 12:11, I believe Daniel is saying that when those two events occur, the regular sacrifice being abolished and the AoD set up, there are 1290 days left in history. If the AoD occurs at the end of the Week there is no time left for neither the great tribulation nor then the wrath of God to fall. How would there be time for the AC to enact the greatest tribulation in the history of the world, if the wrath of God has to fall also? With the sacrifices stopping by the AofD being set up a the midpoint of the Week, this leaves time for the great tribulation…we don’t know how long it will last since Jesus tells us it will be cut short, and then once the church is delivered…God’s wrath falls for the remainder of the Week.
As far as the temple, I believe it can be a tabernacle of sorts, it doesn’t have to be an elaborate building. A tabernacle could go up very quickly.
May I humbly suggest you get a copy of The Sign and read it and then pass judgment on the argument.
Oh, and by the way…Kathy 2 – Mom 1 as far as the Scrabble tournament!
Kathy,
I must say, that of all the people I have challenged about the questioning of the timing of the abomination of desolation, you are the first one to give any effort into answering any of those points. That's a bonus in my book.
It would seem though, that you are weary of the argument already and do not wish to continue until I read Vankampen's book. I might just have to do that...I seriously need to know when it will be set up...Still, I doubt he will convince me. Here's why I think that:
The clearness for the two events in Daniel 9:27 occurring at the same time is the same sort of argument used by those who refuse to see the pause between the 69th and 70th weeks.
If history ends on day 1,290 as you say you believe it will, then what is the meaning of Daniel 12:12?
"Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." Daniel 12:12
If the abomination of desolation occurs on day 1,290 and the Great Tribulation also occurs then, 45 days is a milestone for those surviving off the land; they will be blessed with some sort of comfort or relief to know that they can make it all the way to the Second Coming Rapture when Jesus will destroy all those with the mark.
At the end of the Millenial Reign, when the nations are tempted to come against the camp of the saints, this will usher in God's wrath.
As far as 45 days + being enough time for the greatest tribulation in human history, it is entirely plausible. Look at how long it took New Orleans to come to utter misery during Hurricane Katrina. Granted, that was a natural phenomenon; nonetheless, there are many stadiums around the world that could be used as 'holding cells' for faithful people. Imagine Katrina on a global scale and caused by man-made military enforcement at the control of Satan, and it is not hard to see it would not take long at all to surpass even the terrible atrocities and number of people that were slaughtered in concentration camps in WWII.
The reason I am not convinced that the Great Tribulation can be cut short and then the remainder of the week come is that the Great Tribulation will threaten the existence of all flesh, not just the church or the people of God. When Jesus ends the Great Tribulation, he will immediately begin ruling over the earth for 1000 years.
What is going to prime the world to bow to the AC and take his mark at the midpoint unless there is serious trouble in the first half of the week?
How can even a tabernacle go up if there is serious trouble going on?
Clearly, we agree the days of the Great Tribulation will be cut short! (Matthew 24:22)
But the 70th week will not be! (Daniel 9:24-27)
The 42 month campaign against people of faith will not be! (Daniel 7:21,25; Daniel 12:7; Revelation 13:5-7)
The 1,260 day ministry of the two witnesses will not be! (Revelation 11:3-12)
The 1,260 day feeding of the land of Israel will not be! (Revelation 12:6)
The 1,290 day second half of the 70th week will not be! (Daniel 12:11)
The first forty-five days after day 1,290 will not be! (Daniel 12:12)
Between day 1,335, (Daniel 12:12), and the Second Coming, there is nothing on the timeline of things that have been determined. Now the days can be cut short! The Great Tribulation begins at day 1,290 when the abomination of desolation is set up. People who can survive the first 45 days of flight without giving up will be blessed somehow with comfort, that they can make it all the way to the Second Coming/Rapture.
Again, I appreciate your effort to deal with some points I raise. You have done more than anyone to date in making an effort. That shows that you are somewhat serious about preparing yourself and others for the last days.
In Him,
Gene
Hi Gene,
I’d like to invite you to take a look at a chart I drew up of D’s 70th Week. It should help give you a picture of my understanding of the timeline of events. I view Revelation as chronological with certain sections that zero in and give more detail and clarification. I do not place God’s wrath at the end of Christ’s millennial reign. When the 6th seal is opened, the wicked on the earth cry out that the wrath of the Lamb has come. Since the church is not destined for God’s wrath and the fifth trumpet lasts for five months, the rapture must occur at least five months prior to the end of the Week. I also think it is the annihilation of all believers that would occur if Christ did not cut the great tribulation short, not all flesh. I view those that are saying, “Peace and safety!” in 1 Th. 5:3 are saying it because they are enjoying it and not because they desire it. They are the ones who’ve aligned with AC, taking his mark. While they are enjoying peace and safety Paul says sudden destruction will come upon them. I see this as the day of the Lord’s wrath. Believers are undergoing Satan’s wrath during the great tribulation and those who take the mark are enjoying peace and safety. At Christ’s second coming the tables are turned. Believers are rescued/raptured, and then unbelievers begin to experience the full fury of God’s wrath. Also, like Christ’s presence at His first coming spanned over thirty years, I see Christ’s presence at His second coming spanning a period of time as well. His initial presence with His angels to gather the elect cuts the great tribulation short, sometime, at least five months prior to the end of the Week. His appearance at Armageddon falls later. I believe AC’s authority will span the entire second half of the Week but his persecution against believers is cut short by their removal from the earth.
Gotta run for now…
Kathy
Hi Kathy,
I looked at your chart. I like the horse drawings, and the guy on the cloud. You put some time into the work.
The way I understand the rapture/resurrection is that Christ will destroy those with the mark at the same time and instantly begin his Millenial Reign. Christ and his elect shall not wait in limbo for the rest of the week to finish up.
Also, the second resurrection, the resurrection of the righteous to inherit eternal life and the resurrection of the righteous to receive eternal damnation comes after the 1000 years, not before as your timeline suggests.
Think of the day of the Lord like a big wheel. When it first starts spinning, there will be a resurrection/rapture/destruction of enemies by fire. Then it is going to turn for a 1000 years of peace. Then when it gets back to the same point on the wheel where it first began, there will be another resurrection and another destruction by fire--this one final...
You didn't answer my question: what is the meaning of Daniel 12:12?
How can there be 1,335 days if history ends on day 1,290 as you suggest?
Before we can delve into the heavenly aspects of Revelation, we might first need to come to a firm grasp of what has been determined in the worldly aspects of the last days from the other prophetic books. There is a reason I began my bible study on preparing people and equipping them for emergency or flight in Psalms and Genesis, not in Revelation. If people cannot follow simple logic of an earthly timeline, how are they going to understand the heavenly order of things, which are not constrained to our limited understanding of time and space?
In Him,
Gene
P.S.
I almost forgot: you said that those with the mark will still be experiencing peace and safety. No way!
They love their lives too much to know better than to take the mark, but that does not mean they will not be aware of the cost. Those people will be in bitter anguish of soul. No one can know their despair. They will lose all semblance of peace of mind; anger and hatred will fill the void and they will seek to destroy others and themselves.
The Great Tribulation will be more adverse psychologically and emotionally and spiritually to this group than to anybody. They will have to rely heavily on drugs and alcohol to cope. In contrast, those trying to survive off the land in the mountains and hills, their primary challenge is physical, yet for the most part, they can still have peace of mind and a strong spirit.
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."
Matthew 24:22
NO FLESH!!! Not a worm! Not a fish! Not a human! Utter destruction at the hand's of man's evil inventions if the Lord does not come and stop them from completely destroying the world.
P.S.S.
Noticed typo in first comment:
the second resurrection will be for the righteous to inherit eternal life and the rightous to receive eternal damnation...
That second "righteous" should be "wicked"---the wicked will rise to receive eternal damnation.
The righteous will only inherit eternal life--no more, no less.
(Even at face value, we can still make simple mistakes, so it's a good idea to catch those mistakes and revise them asap.)
Gene,
I see the shattering of Israel as being completed (12:7)and all Israel saved - the one third remnant - before the forty-five transition day period begins. And that is what I view the forty-five day period, transitioning from Israel's time of being shattered and God setting up His kingdom.
The great tribulation will have already occurred, being cut off by the Lord's return. He will not be in limbo but will almost immediately begin pouring out His wrath and it will be finished/completed at Armageddon. (Rev. 15&16)
During the transition period will be the restoration of Mt. Zion (Rev. 16:19,20 - Zech. 14:10), the restoration of Israel to her own land (Jeremiah 31:10-12a, Isa. 10:20,21), the restoration of the temple (Ez. 41:1;43:7 -Ze. 6:13), Gentile survivors brought to God's holy mountain (Isa. 66:16,18), and when Christ will receive reign over the earth (Dan. 7:11-14).
Whether my timeline is accurate remains to be seen of course, but one thing on which we can be confident, these things will occur just as God has planned them...the one I'm looking forward to the most, seeing Jesus on His throne...Oh what a glorious day that will be!!!
As far as the meaning of Daniel 12:12 - The blessedness of the kingdom awaits the one who comes to the end of the 1335 days...
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