In my previous post I mentioned that people often struggle to accept the doctrine of election. In an interview I listened to recently with John MacArthur on the subject of election, he mentioned that this is a bigger problem in Let me ask you a question. What would you think of a believer who bristled at the doctrine of God’s love? Seems ludicrous doesn’t it? In my recent study on the sovereignty of God, I’ve come to understand that the doctrine of God’s love actually flows out of the doctrine of election. Let’s look at some verses and see if you don’t come to the same conclusion.
Romans 1:6-7a: “…among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ; to all who are beloved of God in
Romans 8:33a, 35a: “Who will bring a charge against God’s elect?...Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?
Romans 9:11-13: “for though the twins were not yet born, and had not done anything good or bad, in order that God’s purpose according to His choice might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
Ephesians 1:3-5: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will…”
1 Thessalonians 1:4: “knowing, brethren beloved by God, His choice of you;”
Jude 1: “Jude, a bond-servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, beloved in God the Father…:”
Remember our condition before salvation? We had deceitful and desperately wicked hearts, we did not seek for God, we were enemies of God, we had fleshy minds which were hostile to God, we were blinded by Satan, we were dead in our sin, and we were accustomed to only doing evil. Such a condition is only capable of choosing which form of sin is most appealing to itself and such a condition is not worthy of God’s love or mercy, only death!
In choosing us He loved us and He loved us in choosing us. Beloved, how deep the Father’s love for us when we were so utterly deplorable and incapable of responding to Him in any way, when we deserved only to remain in the gun sights of His wrath!
So what choices do we now have after being chosen by Him to receive His mercy, grace, peace, and every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies? Isn’t it the quality of fruit He’s appointed us to bear, proving we are His disciples. Isn’t it the level of obedience we can offer in return for His great and amazing gift to us?! When you consider that He raised us up with Christ in order that in the ages to come He might show us the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us, it should be with great joy that we offer Him acts of service with a servant's heart, loving Him with the good works which He prepared beforehand that we should walk in them!
Beloved, to embrace the doctrine of election is to embrace the loving arms of our heavenly Father, but it is to also recognize and bow at His sovereignty. There but for the grace of God we could have remained in His gun sights of wrath. Whatever God does is glorious. He chooses because it gives Him glory. Why doesn't He choose everyone? Because somehow in this He is glorified as well.
We must take it by faith that this is so. We preach the "whosoever will" passages. We beg others on behalf of Christ to be reconciled to God, and then we leave the results up to Him.
Your Grace Still Amazes Me!
28 comments:
Does God love the people He did not choose?
The Bible tells us that God is love. John 3:16 says that God so loved the world… 2 Pe. 3:9 tells us that God is patient, not wishing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance. Do all come to repentance? The call on the human side is for all to repent but Scripture also tells us that God grants the repentance. (2 Ti. 2:25) He does not call everyone with His elective love. Jesus told His disciples in John 6:44 that no one can come to Him unless the Father draws them. Not all are drawn, not all are loved with God’s elective love. While God bestows certain blessings on all indiscriminately we must distinguish this from His everlasting love He has for the elect. He does not have an everlasting love for everyone otherwise everyone would be saved.
A better question might be does God hate people? Whether we like it or not, God does hate people. According to Romans 9:13 God hated Esau. We have to admit that in at least this one circumstance, God hated the one He did not choose to give salvation. There are passages in Scripture where we see God wiping out whole nations. Would God pour out His wrath on someone He loved or hated? God told Saul to kill every man, woman and child of the Amalekites. That wasn’t love He was displaying but wrath. (Israel will never be wiped out because they are chosen – He will keep specific promises to them as a nation and they eventually will be brought into a perfect relationship with Him.)
We are responsible for our sin and because of His holiness He deals with it. For the elect, God’s wrath fell on Christ. Who will it fall on for those who do not believe? It will fall on the unbeliever and God will remain just and holy and righteous in His indignation against them. Romans 9:14 says there is no injustice with God by Him loving some and hating others. Romans 9:15 says “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and compassion on whom I will have compassion.” I just praise Him for His mercy and compassion towards me. I certainly didn’t deserve it.
Hi Kathy,
I haven't forgotten about responding to Kristen's post re OSAS. It was thought provoking and I actually drafted a response about 10 days ago but haven't had a chance to finish my thoughts, comments, and questions.
Regarding the issue of election and God hating Esau...
Well, it looks like even pastor John MacArthur Jr. disagrees with you on this! Of course, I don't have a problem with a person disagreeing with John MacArthur Jr. (as I do on many points). The important thing is to be sure that our thinking and theology align with the Lord's. I know, I'm stating the obvious and am sure you agree;-)
The following "Question" was asked by a member of the congregation at Grace Community Church in Panorama City, California, and "Answered" by their pastor, John MacArthur Jr. It was transcribed from the tape, GC 70-11, titled "Bible Questions and Answers." A copy of the tape can be obtained by writing, Word of Grace, P.O. Box 4000, Panorama City, CA 91412 or by dialing toll free 1-800-55-GRACE.
Question
What does hate mean, when God says He "hates Jacob?" Does He actually hate the person or does He hate what the person does?
Answer
You remember in Romans, chapter 9, God says, "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated." It doesn't say He hated Jacob, as the question indicates, but He says, "I love Jacob and I hate Esau." Now the question is, "Does God hate the person or does He hate what the person does?" Well, what does John 3:16 say, "For God so loved the whole world." So we know that everyone falls under the general category of the love of God, but there are a number of times in Scripture when God is expressed as "hating." I was thinking of Psalm 5:5 where it says, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity." Then over in Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates." Then over in Psalm 26:5, "I hate the assembly of evildoers." In Proverbs, an even more extensive statement is made in that familiar text of chapter six, verse sixteen, "There are six things which the Lord hates, seven are an abomination to Him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers." And then, of course, in Proverbs 8:13, you probably have something which makes it very clear. It says, "The fear of the Lord (or true worship of God) is to hate evil; pride, arrogance and the evil way, and the perverted mouth I hate."
Now in all of these cases you can see clearly that what it is that God hates is not the individual but--what? The sin. He even lists the sins that He hates. When a person persists in those sins, it is the sin in the sinner persisted that God hates. Even God says, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked." The New Testament says that "The Lord does not desire that any should perish." And so it is the sin that He hates. In Jeremiah, I was just thinking of chapter 44, verse 4, it says, "I sent all my servants the prophets again, and again, saying 'Oh, do not this abominable thing which I hate.'" It is the deed of the sinner that the Lord hates. It is the act of
sin that the Lord hates. But, it is also true that the sinner who does not repent, who continues in the sin will feel the fury of God's hatred. In Malachi 1:4, it says that, "The Lord," towards people who sin, "is indignant forever."
So God hates the sin, but if the sinner persists in the sin, then the sinner feels the hatred of God. With regard to Esau, I might just say as a footnote, nowhere in Genesis does it say that God hated Esau--it doesn't say anywhere that He hated Esau. It was only after Esau had chosen sin and abandoned God for many, many years--over a thousand years before God would look back and say, "Esau have I hated." By that time it was clear to all where Esau stood. So once the sinner is inexorably and finally identified with the sin, then the sinner feels the hatred of God.
from:
http://www.biblebb.com/files/macqa/70-11-1.htm
Hi Jim,
You know, there are a lot of things, especially with the doctrine of election, on which I agree with John. But I guess this is one area where we disagree. God didn’t say, “I hated Esau’s sin.” He says, “I hated Esau.” Isn’t it interesting that immediately after those words, the Author/author of Romans recognized what man’s reaction would be - to immediately think God was being unfair and unjust by having mercy and compassion on some but not all, by choosing some for His plan but not all, by loving some but not all? All are responsible for their sin. All deserve God’s wrath. God hates all sin, even the sin of His chosen. It’s consistent with His character. All sin will be dealt with, which is also consistent with His character. Romans 9 clearly says however that it is the Creator’s choice as to on whom He will have mercy and compassion and it is His choice as to whom He hardens. For the elect, God’s love falls on them and His wrath against their unrighteousness fell on Christ. For those not chosen, His hatred falls on them as well as His wrath against their unrighteousness and it is completely deserved and God is not unjust. Overwhelming gratitude consumes me at times for His choosing and loving me because I am so unworthy of His mercy and compassion. Overwhelming awe also consumes me at times, as my understanding of His character grows, and I’ve only scratched the surface. He is so very big and we are so very small!
Be sure and post your comments and questions to Kristen. God has blessed her with much wisdom and I’ve learned a lot from her! Here’s something she pointed out to me which makes complete sense to me…
“God loved Jacob and prophesied his future before he was even born, not because he was a man who would sin less than his brother or would chose not to abandon God. He chose Jacob purely for His own purposes, which enabled Jacob to commit his life to the Lord. You can’t teach that before creation God chose a specific group of people for His purpose and then say that because the other group wouldn’t turn from their sin, they have to endure God’s wrath even though God really loved them. Without God’s choice, no one will turn because no one can turn. That doesn’t negate their responsibility for their sin; it only explains why someone does turn from their sin.”
Thanks for the visit. I trust that little guy of yours continues to bring you great joy!
God hates.
God hated Esau. (Rm. 9:13)
God hates all who do iniquity. (Ps. 5:5b)
Ps. 7:11 tells us that God is a righteous judge, and a God who has indignation every day. When He wiped out Sodom and Gomorrah, was it because He loved them? We are not afforded the emotion of hatred towards His creation like He is, just towards that which has brought ruin to His creation. He can hate and still be righteous and just. In our humanness, we struggle enough with the flesh and in His wisdom He tells us we are to love our enemies and bless those who persecute us and leave the vengeance up to Him. (Mt. 5:43,44; Rm. 12:19-21)
His day of the Lord wrath is coming…
Is it correct to say that 'God is hate' in the same way that 'God is love'?
No where in scripture is it written that God is hate, but it is written that God is love. (I Jn. 4:8) God is the essence of love, not hatred. We need to leave that one to His enemy. Love is inherent in all He is and does. But, in keeping with His character which also includes holiness, and His holiness is the summation of all that He is (it’s His only attribute that is extolled three times – Rev. 4:8), His judgment, hatred, and wrath against sin and sinners is perfectly harmonized with His love and holiness.
If the essence of love, why does His love not extend to all persons?
The easy and quick answer to that is found in Romans 9. Because He is God and as God He is sovereign and He tells us that He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy and compassion on whom He will have compassion. We are arrogant as His creation to question the Creator concerning this. “Who are you, O man, who answers back to God?”
For a more in depth response, I’m going to give you what my friend Kristen passed on to me recently. It makes complete sense to me and I think it addresses your question.
“John 3:16 is the theme of scripture – the gospel in one sentence. If it were the only words ever penned through inspiration, it would be sufficient to draw men to Christ. God loved the world so much that He gave – whoever believes will be saved. In His divine graciousness God chose to elaborate on this sentence, giving us the whole of scripture and thus we can expand our understanding of salvation through words like justification, redemption, predestined, chose, sacrifice, faith, gift and secure. So, this verse tells us who will be saved (those who believe) but not necessarily the how (His work behind the scenes) from a rounded perspective.
It also tells us that God loved the world so much that it caused Him to act. What was it He loved? In its sinful, degraded state He still saw purpose in its creation – He chose to redeem the world so that it could be returned one day to its original state, restore fellowship with the created and bring glory to Himself. Does this verse say that God loved ALL MANKIND? Is that what it means by “the world”? Or could it mean His creation – the actual created world, humans and nature alike? Taking the whole of scripture, I think this verse means that God loved His creation and desired to restore it to its original intention, full-well knowing the cost of that redemption. Yes, He loves His creation. Yes, He loves mankind. Yes, He loves His original plan so much that He’ll pay to restore it. But He is still holy; therefore He hates sin, including sinners. Too much scripture supports this. So when II Peter 3 tells us that God does not wish for any to perish but for all to come to repentance, we have to use other scripture to define the word “all.” We know He hated Esau, we know He hated the Philistines and the Amalekites. He wasn’t patiently waiting for them to repent but He had them killed. The ones He is waiting for is His elect – once they are all secure in salvation, He will then bring about the day of judgment. (That is the context of II Peter 3.)”
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The key is taking all of scripture as a whole. It gives a complete picture on the character of God and of all His attributes and how they harmonize together in His salvation plan.
Yes, it is important to look at all the Scriptures in question.
But I would like you to talk a bit more about what you mean in saying that God is the essence of love.
If love is essential to God's nature, does love not effect His dealings with all of His creatures?
Yes, God is love and His love does effect His dealings with man. But God is also Just, Righteous, Holy, Jealous, Perfect and Good. All the characteristics of God that are revealed to us in scripture must be balanced with the fact that God is God and can do whatever He pleases. He does nothing that is contrary to His character and though He is capable of both wrath and love, this does not compromise His character. If we cannot understand it - it is because we are not God. Therefore, what is confusing we must accept by FAITH.
So often we forget that our relationship with God is faith-based...By grace you are saved through FAITH (not logic)...
Right, so God's essentially loving nature affects His dealings with creation.
What impact does His loving nature have on His relationship with those that are not amongst His elect?
Let me ask you a question. Do all deserve the chance to have a relationship with God? Reality is 180 degrees away from that. All men deserve separation. God did not chose for men to die – that is their current state because of sin. All die because of sin. He only chose some to live. Why did He chose any at all? The elect are chosen for a familial, loving relationship with Himself because of His mercy and compassion. EVERYTHING exists for Jesus. (Col. 1:16) NOTHING in the universe exists for itself. From the greatest saint to the most wicked, genocidal dictator, EVERYTHING exists and WILL SERVE the glory of Jesus Christ. The non-elect exist so that, whether they know it or not, their knee will bow, and will acknowledge that Jesus is Lord! For the elect, after we bow, we will have the unending privilege and joy of experiencing for all eternity the surpassing riches of His grace toward us. Incredible, isn't it, when you consider we don't deserve it?!
"Let me ask you a question. Do all deserve the chance to have a relationship with God?"
No.
Back to my question?
Ok, let's define His relationship with the non-elect. He is their Creator. We know that much. At birth however, because of their sin they are enemies of God. (Rom. 5:9) They are unreconciled. They are under condemnation. They are dead in their sin. And they (unlike the elect) will remain this way because God has not chosen them to receive His mercy and compassion for their sin. Now, Mt. 5:45 says that He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Those blessings are given to all without respect to merit or deserving while mercy and grace for salvation is given to the elect because of Christ's merit. Ps. 145:15-16 says "The eyes of all look to Thee, and Thou dost give them their food in due time. Thou dost open Thy hand, and dost satisfy the desire of every living thing." There is no good thing that anyone possesses or experiences, elect or non-elect, that does not come from the hand of God. And if God's children are obedient, the non-elect will experience the kindness of God through the love of the elect for we are called to love others, both our brethren in Christ and our enemies.
So you would say that the non-elect are recipients of God's love only in terms of their receiving the benefits of common grace?
Yes Matt, that is my understanding when looking at all of scripture and the character of God.
I'd like to add that we don't know who the elect are but God does. We faithfully scatter the seed as God's obedient children, loving those He brings our way, the Holy Spirit prepares the soil and the results are up to Him.
I've enjoyed our discussion. It's gotten me digging and searching in my favorite Book!
Thanks Matt,
Kathy
I guess it would be more accurate to say I've enjoyed your questions!
Thankyou for graciously answering them.
I do think you need to consider whether your understanding of election does not create any tension with the idea of love being an essential part of God's character.
Hi Kathy, just checking in to see if all was OK. Haven't heard from you for a while.
Blessings, mac.
Hi Mac,
Just been very busy! Three weddings in August and now my twin sister is here visiting from LA. I send her home on Wednesday and then I have wedding three to edit and two more roofing projects before my son and mother arrive for a visit. About mid-October the pace should return to normal and I hope to get back to blogging again. Say hi to everyone for me!
Thanks for checking up on me!
Kathy
Kathy,
I was thinking about you tonight, too :)
Enjoy our beautiful weather! We do live in God's country!
Love,
Marge
Marge,
I'm loving this weather. We have the best September's, don't we?! I'm taking my sister up to Deep Lake near Enumclaw today. Do you know where that's at? I took her to Hurricane Ridge yesterday. I have to send her home tomorrow. We've been having a grand time!
Thanks for dropping by!
Love from Kathy
Good to hear that all is well. Hope the good weather holds up over there! We need lots of rain in our Melbourne dams!
Does Election create tension with the idea of love being an essential part of God's character?
Well, when the Bible says that God is Love, it's not saying that Love is God; it's saying that He is the definition of what Love is.
W.E. Best wrote a book called "God is Love" (you can read all of it at Monergism.com); here's a quote from the introduction that may be helpful to understand God's love as being His nature:
"In this age of 'Smile, God loves you,' it is imperative that the Biblical view of God’s love be boldly declared. The most tragic theological error of our day is the belief that love is the chief attribute of God. “God is love” of I John 4:8 and 16 connected with prejudice and Biblical ignorance have led to the error of “love is God.” The uninformed may think such statements minimize God’s love; whereas, the fact is, men have enthroned a deified love where holiness should reign. God who is love is maligned in this century by representing Him as loving without any regard for righteousness. The oversimplification of “God is love” has resulted in a dislike for doctrine in general and for distasteful passages, like “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated” (Rom. 9:13), in particular. A system of doctrine built on the oversimplification of “God is love” leads to affinity with modernism and socialism.
God is light (I John 1:5). God is righteous (I John 3:7). God is love (I John 4:8). Light and righteousness are the leading thoughts in the first part of I John, and love is the ruling thought in the last section. Love, therefore, is the end to which the others are the means. It is the consummation of fellowship which is the theme of the Epistle." -end quote-
So, to finish up I'll say this: all whom God loves He loves eternally. His love is everlasting. Unchangeable. So, since He is unchangeable and His love is everlasting, is it biblical to say that God loved Esau for a time, and then because of his wicked deeds, God’s love turned to wrath? OR does God mean what He says "Esau have I hated"? Or, did God love Amalek for a time and then because of his wicked deeds put him from His remembrance forever? Will the Lord put a recipient of grace out of His memory forever? No! He loves us with an everlasting love, and nothing can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom. 8:28-39).
The reason for God’s love was not found in Jacob but in God who is love (I John 4:8). Hence, the cause of God’s love must be found in Himself; He IS Love; He defines what love is; He is His own law and exercises His love as the absolutely Sovereign One. He loves according to His good pleasure not because He looked downed through time and saw that we would earn that love or accept that love (We love Him because He first loved us, I John 4:19)
As A.W. Pink put it (paraphrasing): If God loved us based on our first loving Him or exercising faith in Him (or regulated by anything else other than His will), then, in such a case He would love by rule, and loving by rule He would be under a law of love, and then so far from being free, God would Himself be ruled by law.
So, there is no tension between the fact that God (who is Love) displays that Love in Christ toward us while we were still sinners deserving wrath, and the fact that He loves only those very elect with an everlasting, unchanging love; while remaining in opposition to everyone who remains in opposition to Him.
In light of the fact that His anger and opposition is only fair and just, how much more amazing is His immeasurable Love and amazing Grace to those of us who are spared from what we deserve! One can only cry out "Lord, forgive my wicked heart of unbelief in my many sins against you and thank you and praise and glory be to you for your Love and forgiveness toward a sinner like me!"
Good, good stuff Sheldon - Thanks for the comment!
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