Some believe that the Scriptures teach an any moment return of Christ, referring to it as the Doctrine of Imminency. There are many verses that tell us to expect, wait for, await eagerly, to be awake and keep awake, be ready, be sober, be on the alert, His coming is at hand, but not one claims that the coming of Christ for the elect could be in the next moment.
When I read Matthew 24 I come up with twenty-three happenings that Jesus Himself foretells will occur before His return and the elect are gathered:
- 1-false Christs misleading many
- 2-wars
- 3-rumors of wars
- 4-nation rising against nation
- 5-kingdom rising against kingdom
- 6-famines
- 7-earthquakes
- 8-believers delivered to tribulation
- 9-believers killed
- 10-believers hated by all nations on account of His name
- 11-many falling away
- 12-those that fall away delivering up one another
- 13-those that fall away hating one another
- 14-many false prophets arising
- 15-many false prophets misleading many
- 16-lawlessness increasing
- 17-because of the increase in lawlessness most people’s love growing cold
- 18-the gospel of the kingdom being preached in the whole world (see Rev. 14:6)
- 19-the abomination of desolation seen standing in the holy place
- 20-the greatest tribulation/persecution against the elect to ever occur
- 21-false Christs and false prophets arising and showing great signs and wonders
- 22-the sun darkened, the moon not giving its light, the stars falling from the sky, the powers of the heavens being shaken
- 23-the sign of the Son of Man
Have any of these happenings occurred? I see #’s 1-9 as having occurred or occurring. #10 is becoming very close a reality if we aren't there already. I would include #16 as well. #19 can’t occur until after another
His Beloved, I just can’t find an imminent return of Christ taught anywhere in Scripture, but especially in what Christ taught Himself regarding what would occur before He returns and gathers the elect.
27 comments:
Hi Kathy!
Just sent you email.
Luke 21:28
And when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Many things have been fulfilled that Jesus spoke about happening in the "end times". The #1 most important thing is the nation of Israel becoming a nation. It is significant that in a few days they will be celebrating this anniversary! Lest we not forget those that turn TO God - Accept Jesus during the Tribulation. Many who choose to not see now, will see and God's spirit will pour down upon everyone - as he will continue to give them chance over chance over chance, as He wants humans to accept!
Here's a few more signs;
Matthew 24:14:
The Gospel will be preached in all the world before the physical return of Jesus Christ to the earth occurs at Armageddon, although exhaustive efforts are presently underway to accomplish this.
Matthew 13:24-30
There will be a mixture of believers and false believers within the Church body
2nd Peter 3:3-4
There will be scoffers
Daniel 12:4
Humanity will be able to cross the globe rapidly and science will be advancing
2nd Timothy 3:1
Perilous times will come for mankind
Luke 17:26
Genesis 6:11
The earth will be swimming in a sea of violence
Mark 13:8
There will be warfare all over the globe
Matthew 24: 22:
Mankind will have the capability to destroy all life on the planet
Matthew 24:7
Deadly diseases will be rampant
Famines will be common
Earthquakes will be occurring globally
Luke 21:25
There will be violent weather
2nd Timothy 3:2
Children will be disobedient and rebellious
Luke 21:17
Christians and Jews will be hated for their faith in and connection with Christ
2nd Timothy 3:2-5
Mankind will be in a state of moral decay
Daniel 7: 23
Daniel 9:26
There will be progress made toward a global government
1st Thessalonians 5:3
The world will be desperately seeking peace
Revelation 11:9
Global means of communication will exist
Luke 17:26
In the last days, fallen angels will mingle with mankind
Revelation 3:15
Christians will be lukewarm in their faith
Matthew 24:5
Many will claim to be Christ
Matthew 24:24
False Christs and false prophets will be very effective in the art of deception
Luke 21:25
There will be signs in the heavens
Jude 1:18
Sexual immorality will abound
Revelation 9:20
Idolatry will be common
1st Timothy 4:1
Many Christians and church doctrines will depart from the faith
Luke 21:35
Mankind's state of rebellion will be so great, the coming of Christ will catch them completely off-guard
Leviticus 20:13
Luke 17:28-30
Homosexuality will be flaunted
2nd Thessalonians 2: 12
Many will rejoice in their unrighteousness
Acts 2:17-18
Many will begin to understand Bible prophecy and will start warning the world the return of Jesus Christ is near
Romans 8:21-23
There will be signs Earth's environment is in trouble
Revelation 9:16
The capability will exist for an army of 200 million soldiers to be formed
2nd Timothy 3:13
Evil men, seducers and deceivers will get worse and worse
Matthew 24:6
There will be wars and rumours of war
Anonymous,
You bring up some other very good verses, thanks!
We need to take into account the context in which Luke 21:28 is written. "These things" include the signs in the sky in verse 25. From Matthew's account the signs occur when the great tribulation is cut short and the great tribulation occurs after the AofD is seen standing in the holy place. In order for that to happen the Temple or Tabernacle of sorts needs to be rebuilt. It's just too soon to be looking up yet for our redemption. Much more must take place first, according to Jesus Himself.
I'm so glad you brought up Matthew 13:24-30! The parable of the wheat and the tares...the true believers and the look-alikes. Jesus is referring to the Church in that passage as you rightly say. From the parable and the Lord's interpretation of the parable in verses 36-43 we learn that Jesus is teaching that wheat/true believers and the tares/look-alikes will grow together until the harvest/end of the age. The tares/look-alikes will then be burned and the wheat/true believers will be gathered (raptured) into the barn at the end of the age. They are gathered by the reapers or angels.
Now let me ask you some very important questions. In Mt. 24, isn't Jesus teaching the disciples when the end of the age occurs? He gives the sign of the end of the age in Mt. 24:29! - "But immediately after the tribulation of those days (the days after the AofD) the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky."
Who is with Jesus and what do they do when He returns after the sign of the end of the age occurs? Angels/reapers are with Him and they gather the elect/wheat!
Matthew 24 is the rapture of the church - plain and simple!
Mt. 28:20..."and lo, I am with you (the church) always, EVEN TO THE END OF THE AGE..." (When He returns with His angels to gather the wheat into the barn!)
Yes, but I believe he takes his church away before the tribulation - there are multiple parables in the Bible about this. I can name them if you'd like but I'm on my way to brunch this morning in a few and will have to do it later today/tonigh.
Jesus coming back in the sky - the 2nd coming - he will come with those raptured, AFTER the wedding feast in Heaven.
What Jesus is referring to with the verses you quoted, are those that come to accept Jesus during the tribulation. They have the ultimate gift of eternal life but will not be saved from the persecution during the tribulation. They will suffer and die for their beliefs.
I would like to know which parables you are talking about.
We must always remember to let the clearer passages interpret the not so clear.
When you compare Mt. 13 with Mt. 24, Jesus clearly teaches that the end of the age, which will include the wheat (true believers in the church) and the tares (the look-alike believers in the church) has not come to fruition before D's 70th Week begins. It culminates somewhere between the second half and the end. This naturally and easily, without force, makes the gathering of the elect in Mt. 24 by the reapers/angels, the rapture of the church. The tares are left behind to face God's wrath.
Great post, Kathy. Jesus laid it out quite clearly that specific events would precede His coming. Then afterwards He spoke of the leaves appearing on a tree before summer. In the same way that leaves in the spring precede the summer, these signs precede His coming. And one of those events is the great tribulation.
Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13
-The Orange Mailman
When we accept & ask Jesus into our lives, we are filled holy spirit.
God will remove those filled with the holy spirit before the anti-Christ comes into play.
The two cannot live together, just as demon possessed people do not have the holy spirit within them.
Darrin,
Thanks for the visit. It's nice to hear from a fellow prewrather!
I am staying busy and do get to have some fun along the way.
Kathy
Anonymous,
When John wrote 1 John he said these words in 2:18: "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour.
Was the Holy Spirit around at the time John wrote those words, when antichrists were also present? Of course.
According to Mark 13:11 we are not to worry about what we should say if we are arrested and delivered up during the great tribulation. Why? "...but say whatever is given you in that hour (when they arrest you and deliver you up); for it is not you who speak, but it is the Holy Spirit."
Hi Kathy,
It's Jim from Salem. I wonder if I could encourage you to consider taking a fresh look at what Jesus may have meant when he said that many would fall away in the last days before He returns. As I've mentioned before, I too am convinced that the prewrath view makes the most sense in light of Scripture. I have to admit you have studied the prewrath position much more thoroughly than I have though. Like you, it was Marv Rosenthal's book that first introduced me to this view and convinced me that it harmonized best with scripture.
Anyway, based on some things that you've written on this blog (and on Joel's blog befpre commenting was shut down due to abuse) it appears that you come from the "once saved, always saved" or "eternal security" theological perspective.
On your first blog posting in which you give your Prewrath Testimony, you mention the golden rule of interpretation: “When the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense.”
It seems to me that if you apply this to the many passages in Scripture that speak of people falling away from the faith, the plain sense is that these people were in the faith and part of the body of Christ before they fell away.
If you look at Scripture (both Old and New Testament), individuals are clearly saved by God's grace through faith. I absolutely do not believe we are saved by our works. But we have free will to accept or reject (by faith) what Christ has done and that free will does not disappear once we place our faith in Him. It is an active, living faith though. We abide by faith in Him and in Him we are completely safe and secure. Anyway, I'd encourage you to pick up a book on this subject called Life in the Son by Robert Shank. It is subtitled "A Study of the Doctrine of Perseverance." I think it will be very important that believers persevere in the last days when the persecution that Jesus said will come comes. He was warning believers, not unbelievers. Anyway, this book is EXCELLENT and very well written. Apparently it is a classic. It was first published in 1960 I believe and is still being published today (by Bethany House Publishers).
By the way, I had a chance to see Joel Rosenberg speak at Tualatin Hills Christian Church a little over a week ago. I bought his latest book and had a chance to meet him briefly and have the book signed. I sure wish I knew where the old bloggers from his blog website went with their conversations. I enjoyed reading the insightful and encouraging things that many brothers and sisters wrote. Unfortunately, I understand there were a few who ruined it for all. Oh well. I understand the wisdom in shutting it down due to abuse.
Looking forward to your thoughts on perseverance of the saints in the end times. Seems odd that Jesus would tell us to persevere if "true Christians" by definition will automatically persevere.
In Christ,
Jim
When John wrote 1 John he said these words in 2:18: "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour.
yes, Jesus is referring to those children that come to know him DURING the tribulation. They will seek guidance in the Bible and he's talking to them. There has yet to be an anti-christ such as what is coming in the end of days. Satan's spirit will indwell within the coming anti-christ after he rises from the dead and everything will change.
Hi, Kathy,
Jim's comment brings up an interesting discussion. As you know, I am a firm believer that God is the One Who saves and that no one can pluck believer's from God's hand - not even the will of the believer. We've discussed this before. However, in some of the endtimes scriptures there is a referral to the fact of believers being misled, if possible (Matt.24:24) or people's love growing cold (Matt.24:12). I do think in the first passage the words "if possible" question the possibility of it happening, but we do know that mankind is instructed NOT to take the mark of the beast or it will result in eternal separation, including the church (Revelation 14:9-12). So the question is, can a believer lose his salvation or even walk away from it?
My father and my husband did a lot of study on this and though the scripture is overwhelmingly clear that salvation is in God's hands and He insures that salvation, they did wonder if there was a removal of the protection of the Holy Spirit during the end times, which made the choice between God and Satan the same as Adam and Eve had in the garden. I think they concluded that the key was true salvation - that someone with the Holy Spirit would not take the mark and the love growing cold was in the hearts of tares - lookalikes who bought into religion but not relationship, who walk away when things get tough. However, this may be wishful thinking and I personally think that Jesus put this warning there to sober people up.
There's my two cents...aren't you impressed that I am blue? Actually, I have no idea how this happened - I think it comes from having a website now...
Great post - keep up the good work. One final note - why does anonymous believe that I John 2:18 is written to believers saved during the tribulation? Where in the context of that passage does it imply that those John wrote the beginning of the book to have suddenly been raptured and others have picked up the book and continued reading? We need to read the book like a letter and this letter was definitely written to a group of existing believers - are we to believe this letter is solely for future believers and not current ones? Where do we see that? (I guess these are not questions for you but for anonymous...)
Kristen! Hi! I was just working on a response to Jim. I was getting ready to post it and then here you are in blue! (I'm very impressed!) I'm going to go ahead and post what I wrote to Jim.
Just so everyone knows, Kristen is my prewrath email friend.
Hi Jim,
The sovereignty of God in salvation is a big subject to tackle, but I do understand scripture to teach that we are chosen, period. You read my comments to anonymous about Paul on the Damascus road? Paul was dead in his sin. A walking, spiritually dead corpse. We all were before salvation. We did not have the capacity to respond. A dead body, floating in a pool, cannot reach out for a life preserver. In the same way, a spiritually dead person cannot reach out to God. God absolutely chose Paul, just as He has the rest of us. If you haven’t read Romans 9, that’s a good place to start. After Paul was chosen he went on to write in Eph. 2 that even our faith is a gift. He understood his spiritual deadness and his inability to respond. Our wills come into play after salvation. How are we going to live out our new life in Christ? Paul did it well, in the power of the Holy Spirit of course, ever aware that now he was to live to the glory of God. To be sure, he still struggled with sin, but Paul so often referred to himself as a bond-servant of Christ. He was now indebted to God and it was not by his (Paul’s) choice. Paul lived his life in such a way that he was able to tell others to live as he lived, to follow his example. Wow! Can we say that to those around us, to our children?
Jesus said that once we are in the Father’s hand, no one can snatch us away. (Jn. 10:27-29) That would include ourselves!
So how does this play out in End Times? The same way it does right now. The way it did during the early days of the church when believers were under severe persecution. If you are truly in Christ, one of the chosen, you will not deny Him. Jesus told His disciples that they did not chose Him but He chose them. James, the brother of John, was put to death by the sword. (Acts 12:2) If you deny Him, you never belonged to Him in the first place. Overcomers, the true church, the true faithful, will maintain their testimony even to the point of death. (Rev. 12:11!)
Have you ever listened to Paul Washer’s shocking message? It is about an hour long. You can listen to it by clicking here. It is well worth your time. In the message he talks about a young boy faced with denying Christ and living or remaining faithful and dying. With tears, Paul Washer described how this young boy pleaded for his life, but he said he could not deny Christ. That young boy ended up losing his life for the sake of Christ.
One last note…Kristen pointed this out to me awhile back. I’m just going to quote her. It’s regarding Luke17:22-18:8:
“Luke 17 ends with the vulture idiom. Then on into 18, Luke tells a parable about prayer (the persistent widow parable), and yet verse 8 ends with the question of whether or not Christ will find faith on the earth when He returns. I have never heard this passage taught as an end times passage, but I believe it is. It starts (Luke 18:1) by saying that Jesus was teaching them to pray at all times and not to lose heart – believers are the ones who pray and He is encouraging believers not to lose heart – what would they lose heart over? The difficulty of the end times. What are we instructed to do? Call out to our heavenly Father/Judge – cry out for justice for the ELECT!”
If you look at Luke 18:1-8 in light of Luke 17:22-37, this parable is teaching us how to pray during the end times! We may lose heart, but we cannot lose our salvation! A genuine believer, one of the elect, will not walk away from the faith, even if faced with death. Those who fall away during the great tribulation were never His in the first place. I am convinced of that.
Thanks for dropping in Jim.
Kathy
I should probably preface something here. Peter denied Christ three times. There are times when we don't speak out for Christ like we should. I've been guilty of it. However, I believe if a time were to come where someone is testing our faith to the point of death, which is going to happen after Antichrist is revealed, the wheat, those who are truly His, will not deny Him. The tares, the look-alikes, will by walking away from the faith, proving they were never His.
Quote "So how does this play out in End Times? The same way it does right now. The way it did during the early days of the church when believers were under severe persecution."
That is so RIGHT ON! So many people want to teach one way about our faith now, but reverse everything when it comes to teaching end times. I'm glad I decided to read these comments.
Have fun and stay busy - Luke 19:13
-The Orange Mailman
Hi, Kathy, sorry for jumping in here. I actually wanted to adress Jim (9:59 PM) re his comment about Joel's blog shutting down etc. If Jim can leave his e-mail on my blog (I won't post it) I'll talk to him regarding the above.
In Him,
mac
Mac,
You are always welcome here.
Jim,
Did you see Mac's comment? If you click on his blue name it will take you to his profile page. From there you can leave him an email.
Thanks Darrin!
Jim,
I gave you the wrong steps. Go to Mac's blog by clicking on his name and then on the name of his blog. He has comment moderation enabled. You can leave him your email address by leaving a comment. He will not post your comment but will then contact you via email once he has your address. Does that makes sense?
Mac, You are always welcome here.
Thanks, Kathy. I'm glad I warned Jim that it can get a little heated there...hope he isn't frightened off!
Well, it'll be like old times at Joel's, just without the anonymous'. =)
Hi Kathy. Hi Mac.
Thank you. I did leave my e-mail in a comment on Mac's blog. Just waiting to hear from Mac now. Thanks.
Jim in Salem.
P.S. As you can see, I created a Blogger account for myself!
Jim, did you get my e-mail?
I emailed you yesterday.
Welcome to the blogger world Jim! I see you and Mac are still trying to get things squared away.
Mac, I remember you telling me you'd sent me an email and I never received it. I wonder if the same glitch has happened with Jim.
A question for you Jim. Do you understand Hebrews 6:4-6 to say that those who have fallen away were in the faith?
Mac, yes I did get your e-mail and just now sent a reply. Thank you.
Kathy, yes I do you understand Hebrews 6:4-6 to say that those who have fallen away were in the faith?
Regarding people falling away in the last days, Kristin suggested (May 6 at 9:13) "...that Jesus put this warning there to sober people up."
Kristin, are you suggesting that Jesus was implying something that wasn't really possible. It kind of makes the Lord to be somewhat deceitful or disingenuous doesn't it? (I mean no disrespect towards you Kristin. I know you love the Lord.)
Here's a quote from the book I recommended called "Life in the Son" (page 164 in my copy of the book).
One will not read long from advocates of the doctrine of unconditional security before encountering this "explanation" of the presence of so many urgent warnings against apostasy so obviously addressed to believers. The folly of their contention is seen in the fact that, the moment a man becomes persuaded that their doctrine of unconditional security is correct, the warning passages immediately lose the very purpose and value which they claim for them.
Strong quotes Dr. A. C. Kendrick on Hebrews 6:4-6: "The text describes a condition subjectively possible, and therefore needing to be held up in earnest warning to the believer, while objectively and in the absolute purpose of God, it never occurs."
But how can there be any "earnest warning" to the believer who is sufficiently "instructed" to understand that the "warning" is directed against an impossibility? How can something be subjectively possible for the person who knows it to be objectively impossible? The only possible circumstance under which the warning passages could serve the purpose and function which they claim for them would be the total rejection of the doctrine of unconditional security and inevitable perseverance.
(END of quote from book)
I just keep going back to the same principles of interpretation that, in part, led me to embrace the prewrath position.
Jim,
Two separate issues in my opinion. First is the verse in Matthew 24:24 where Jesus said that false Christs will arise so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect, as well as the love growing cold comment in verse 12. Do these verses indicate people turning from Christ and "losing" their salvation? No, I don't believe they do because there is too much scripture which teaches that God secures salvation, not the actions of man. Misleading the elect - that is going on all the time, where people are misled by religious leaders but this is not a salvation issue. The salvation issue comes with taking the mark - if a believer takes the mark, they lose their salvation. Period. Black and white. So the question there is, can a Spirit-indwelt believer take the mark? Again, I don't think so, but often times the Bible warns believers not to live in a comfort zone and to "work out their salvation with fear and trembling". The call to deny ourselves, take up our cross daily and follow Him puts works in our lap, though salvation is of the Lord. So Jesus gives the disciples a warning so that they can be on the alert.
A separate issue is the Hebrews 6 passage. A year ago I would have agreed with you, but I studied and taught the book of Hebrews this winter in a ladies Bible study and I understand the Hebrews 6 as well as 10:26-31 much better. When you study the whole letter you find that it was written to a couple different mindsets in that church. There were the faithful believers who were facing persecution and struggling with the desire to fall back to the Old Covenant worship and adherence to the Law. The second group were those who had been associated with the church, had seen the hand of God changing lives - even saw miracles and participated in the fellowship but were ready to walk away from everything they saw because they couldn't fully surrender their lives to Christ. These are the apostates. If you study Hebrews 6, John MacArthur as well as other commentators, point out that the words used to describe the ones who are falling away are not the normal words to describe believers. For believers - sanctified, justified, saved. For this group - enlightened, tasted, partakers. These are words that can describe people who have been associated with the church and the work of God. Being near the light can be enlightening. We don't taste of the Holy Spirit - He dwells in us. Taste implies a sampling. So I think Hebrews six is describing someone who choses to walk away from God, knowing exactly what He offers but rejects it. If you read verses 7 and 8 it describes just that. The rain (God's goodness) falls on two soils but the one which produces fruit is blessed by God but the one which produces thorns is burned.
So I don't think Hebrews 6 is a useless warning to believers who cannot lose their salvation, but a warning to those who have never surrendered their lives and are tempted to walk away. I am not advocating fire insurance here. I believe that we are called to walk by faith which means to believe the word of God and act on it, no matter how I feel, because God promises a good result. My fruit reveals my soil condition and the lack thereof is purported as a warning. Too many people point to a salvation experience and believe they have fire insurance, without any works assurance in their life. That is not my position. But the issue I was pointing to was not the theology of Hebrews 6 (I didn't realize that was the passage mentioned) but to the concept of love growing cold and being misled. and then taking the mark.
I hope that explains where I was coming from.
Kristen
Hi Jim,
Kristen and I discussed the Hebrews 6 passage awhile ago. With all the passages that so overwhelmingly tells us that God is sovereign in our salvation, from choosing us, to drawing us, to giving us faith, and then to keeping us, I don't see how you can come up with any other interpretation of the Hebrews 6 passage.
Doesn’t it make sense that our choice comes into play after God places us in Christ?
Below is just the tip of the ice berg of the things Paul instructs believers to do:
Walk by the spirit
Bear one another’s burdens
Let each one examine his own work
Walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called
Be imitators of God
Walk in love
There must be no filthiness and silly talk
Husbands love your wives
Wives be subject to your own husbands
Be subject to one another
Put on the full armor of God
Be of the same mind
Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit
Rejoice in the Lord always!
Devote yourselves to prayer
We can choose not to do the things listed above.
Paul tells us we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. I understand this to mean how we walk after we’ve been placed in the Body of Christ. When we walk in obedience we experience great joy! With disobedience, our joy is gone and then God’s loving hand of discipline will often move in. (The Corinthian believers experienced some of God’s harshest discipline.) Sometimes we don’t feel like walking by faith. But if we act on the Word of God as Kristen said, even if we don’t feel like it, God promises a good result. From first hand experience, I can say, joy returns!
Here are a few to add to the list from Paul's letters with a day of the Lord context:
let us not sleep
let us be alert and sober
encourage one another
build one another up
let no one in any way deceive you
stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught
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